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Poster: Dan L. Date: Jul 14, 2008 1:57pm
Forum: movies Subject: Re: Just Uploaded a 'PD' clip with Frank Sinatra & June Hutton - who's your lawyer?

Let me start by saying this is a NOT a flame...but I am confused. PD is not easy.

In the film description you say that the 'mean people' at Frank Sinatra's estate claim copyright, but it's OK because you confirmed this is in PD because you checked with a lawyer....oh really now.... By my estimation in litigation, lawyers are right 50% of the time: the 50% of lawyers who win (and the obligatory 50% who lose). Is your lawyer a copyright expert? I don;t wish to demean you or your lawyer: maybe this was thoroughly researched, but it would be instructive for all of us if some more details were provided. The issue comes up a lot on IA it would seem and many items are subsequently taken down.

While it may very well be the case, the reading I've done on what constitutes PD is so confusing as to boggle the mind. It depends in part on

1.country where work was produced
2.year the item was released since the laws and jurisdiction change (eg US STATE laws supercede federal laws in some cases eg sound recordings made in some years will be state covered until February 15, 2067
3. any underlying work (eg the song appearing in a work or the original novel/screenplay) within the item
4. whether or not there are any copyrighted entities within the work (eg Mickey Mouse is a copyrighted entity within works which would have otherwise had copyright expire but it is extended to entities within the work,
5. type of media (sound, photo, movie, cartoon, book etc..)
6. whether work was published or unpublished
7. whether copyright was renewed or not and when
8. the jurisdiction in which you propose to claim the item is in PD, whether country is a signatory of certain agreements, whether agreements are optional, whether or not the 'rule of the shorter term' applies
9. Exceptions to rules - in some cases scholarly works, universities or libraries have exemptions

any I don;t even understand any of it and why it is the case! That's just a summary of what I gleaned from the net.

For a public domain discussion of public domain, visit wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:PD#When_does_copyright_expire.3F

BTW Does IA have a public domain policy page? I'm sure there was one somewhere but I can;t find it...Does IA have lawyers or copyright experts that look at this stuff? I'm interested in the policy by which this is all sorted out.

Thanks for uploading the item just the same - there is always more content out there of interest.

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Poster: Retro_Saiyan Date: Jul 14, 2008 5:14pm
Forum: movies Subject: Re: Just Uploaded a 'PD' clip with Frank Sinatra & June Hutton - who's your lawyer?

Lawyer aside, There is no copyright notice on the item, which for pre-1963 items is a good sign it's PD, and the US copyright office has no record of it being submitted for copyright. Almost every episode was trashed by CBS, and even if it was copyright, Frank's estate wouldn't own the copyright anyway since frank had no ownership of the program.

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Poster: Dan L. Date: Jul 14, 2008 6:50pm
Forum: movies Subject: Re: Just Uploaded a 'PD' clip with Frank Sinatra & June Hutton - who's your lawyer?

Prior to 1989, that is apparently true. Since 1989, itis not even necessary to indicate copyright anywhere. If so that would seem to be correct: quoting from wikipedia:

Under the Berne Convention, copyright is automatic: no registration is needed, and it is not even necessary to display a copyright notice with the work for it to be copyright protected. Prior to the U.S. adopting the Berne Convention (by amending its copyright law through the Berne Convention Implementation Act, effective March 1, 1989), this was not the case in the U.S. A work was only copyrighted if published with a copyright notice, which could be as simple as a line saying "© year copyright holder". For U.S. works there are therefore some special cases that place even works published after 1923 in the public domain. However, the necessary conditions are hard to verify.

Published in the U.S., without a copyright notice:
From 1923 to 1977: in the public domain
From 1978 to March 1, 1989: only in the public domain if not registered since.

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Poster: Retro_Saiyan Date: Jul 14, 2008 7:10pm
Forum: movies Subject: Re: Just Uploaded a 'PD' clip with Frank Sinatra & June Hutton - who's your lawyer?

Ok. It's actually quite common for companies to claim copyright on things they don't own the rights to. For example, I have several accounts on YouTube where I upload copyrighted music (Which obviously doesn't belong on IA), and an American company claimed copyright on one of my videos, Despite the fact that it's actually owned by a german company called ODS Media and and licenced to Pickwick Group who is british!

This post was modified by Retro_Saiyan on 2008-07-15 02:10:35

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Jul 20, 2008 12:22pm
Forum: movies Subject: Re: Just Uploaded a 'PD' clip with Frank Sinatra & June Hutton - who's your lawyer?

I have several accounts on YouTube where I upload copyrighted music (Which obviously doesn't belong on IA)

Um Robin, AFAIK that stuff wouldn't belong on Youtube either. You'll probably want to check the Youtube TOS next time you're here.

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Poster: Retro_Saiyan Date: Jul 20, 2008 1:42pm
Forum: movies Subject: Re: Just Uploaded a 'PD' clip with Frank Sinatra & June Hutton - who's your lawyer?

Since when does ANYONE pay attention to YouTube's rules??
:-)

This post was modified by Retro_Saiyan on 2008-07-20 20:42:54